Tucked Into Obama’s Civil Service Bill H R 1388: No Protesting Allowed!

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36 Responses to “Tucked Into Obama’s Civil Service Bill H R 1388: No Protesting Allowed!”

1. Zooomabooma
   March 23rd, 2009 at 1:59 am

   The First Amendment can be dangerous to the attempt at spreading the liberal ideology from human to human all across this land. If those pesky conservatives get to voice their opinion, influential citizens might listen. Shut them up and there’s a chance, yes, finally a chance to finally completely bring about the Utopian Socialist States Of America(?).

2. Matt
   March 23rd, 2009 at 6:53 am

   Once again under this administration I find myself wondering if I’ve woken up in China. This is nuts.

3. Erin
   March 23rd, 2009 at 8:00 am

   Blew my mind when I found it, too. I can’t believe this amendment made it into the bill. We should treat this as a gift for a rallying point. It could go to the Senate floor today…

4. Krystal
   March 23rd, 2009 at 10:38 am

   This is absolutely crazy. First we can’t afford to work for free and second its called volunteering for a reason. ITS A CHOICE!!!!!!!!

5. Mark
   March 24th, 2009 at 8:37 am

   Adolph Obama sure is getting a lot passed in his first 100 days. Say goodbye to your children.

6. Erin
   March 24th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

   Not yet. It passed the vote to bring it to the floor for the Senate to vote on it. Still time to bury your Senators!

7. Joe American who can read
   March 24th, 2009 at 11:25 pm

   Can’t you people read. It’s the same language that applies to any government position. When I worked for the government, we had the same rules. You cannot be political in your position as government employee (unless of course you’re a politician). This bill has the same language. It doesn’t say you can’t protest, it says you can’t protest in your position, “A participant in an approved national service POSITION under this subtitle may not engage in the following activities”. It then goes on to list the activities which are illegal to engage in FROM that position. You can do whatever you want outside of your position (i.e. when you are not on this job).

   Learn to read.

8. Joe American who knows history
   March 24th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

   Oh and by the way, you’re “poster” is a reference to Nazi Germany, which were fascists (i.e. far right wingers like you clowns) and then you mention Communism (which is far left wing).

   Read a history book (oh right you don’t know how to read).

9. Ted S.
   March 24th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

   So I just read Joe American’s comment.
   I found it hard to believe. Really hard.
   So I googled some copied phrases.
   Sure enough… he’s CORRECT.
   It’s apparently a provision of the Hatch Act. What this added language doesn’t say, which SHOULD be added, is that you can’t do these things WHILE you are on the “job.”

10. Ted S.
    March 24th, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    And as for your second comment, Joe, I apologize; as a Republican it makes me a little crazy but yeah, it’s true, we don’t “get” the differences or what any of these terms mean like “socialist,” “Communist,” “Nazi,” etc, all mean… we just know they sound bad and swap them interchangeably. Blame our lousy liberal teachers.

11. Joe American who knows history
    March 25th, 2009 at 12:06 am

    Why should you blame the liberal teachers Ted S. I thought Republicans did everything on their own without the help from anyone. If this were truly the case then you’d know the difference between a fascist and a socialist.

    Oh and OF COURSE I’M CORRECT ABOUT THE LANGUAGE. If everybody wasn’t so damned alarmist in this country we all might learn a thing or two (and learn to get along). Look this is the way laws are written, I’m sorry if you don’t understand this. But this bill states (again), “A participant IN AN approved national service POSITION…” (my emphasis added). Legally it means in the capacity of that position you cannot do any of the forbidden things mentioned, it doesn’t say anything about what you do in your free time.

    I commend you Ted for actually going and researching what I have stated. You are correct, it is similar language to the Hatch Act. When I worked for the government I was able to campaign, protest, proselytize, etc. However, I wasn’t allowed to do those things IN MY POSITION as government employee. In fact most private companies have similar policies regarding their employees. Who wants to go to work and hear the blowhard liberal, nut job Republican, and everyone going to hell Christian drone on and on about their beliefs. I’d rather just do my job and work.

12. Erin
    March 25th, 2009 at 7:54 am

    The language needs to be clarified. It is broad and ambiguous as written, and does NOT say “while you’re doing your volunteer job”. Additionally, they’ve created HR 1444, which is the bill creating the oversight commission. It has more ‘mandatory’ language in it than 1388 does. Slick.

13. Janet
    March 25th, 2009 at 10:55 am

    You know, you might want to actually READ THE BILL YOURSELVES instead relying on a snippet and someone else’s “the sky is falling” description. But I suppose it’s more fun for you to get your panties in a twist over some hype. Well, enjoy yourselves.

14. Erin
    March 25th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    Oh, I’ve read it, Janet. Several times. All of the markups and new amendments and proposed amendments as well. I’ve also read S-277, the Senate version. All of the markups and changes too. Thanks for caring.

15. John American who isn't retarded
    March 25th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    As Joe American pointed out:
    ““A participant IN AN approved national service POSITION…””
    means that we can’t do any of this on the job, but guess what? This bill intends to ship us all off to camps where we’ll live for 3 months. We’re ALWAYS on the job.

16. Daniel
    March 26th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    Maybe you should read the entire bill.. seriously.. 180 days from the time the bill is passed.. they will call all Americans to “Volunteer”.. I rememberr what that meant to the Vietnam era.. Volunteer or we volunteer you.. regardless of age, nationality, and/or religion..
    They want all of us.. every single American .. to participate in this.. That means we have to check our freedoms at the door if we want to work.. (Volunteer).. . Do not just take this at face value.. read.. I sat last night and read the entire Bill.. this is nuts to say the least.. the first thing I saw while reading this, was how the Nazi Re-education camps had brainwashed the children to hate the Jews, and spread their political thoughts. They effectively took away the Parent’s right to educate the child they way they see fit.. it banishes freedom of choice and religions.. What happens when no one volunteers? They will force us all to participate.. think this isn’t something that has been in the works for a long time? Google the 800 concentration camps here in the US

17. Daniel Strickland-Clabaugh
    March 26th, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    TRUTH #1 – The Foundation of Government and Politics Is Religion

    “Strictly separate.” When it comes to religion and politics, that is the rule announced by the courts and enforced by the American Civil Liberties Union over the past sixty years.

    In 1947, the U.S. Supreme Court reversed a longstanding American legal tradition and declared that the U.S. Constitution has erected a “high and impregnable” wall of separation between church and state. The ACLU then set out to apply that ruling in the decades to follow, sending threatening letters and going into court to force civic officials to remove Ten Commandments displays, crèche scenes, the Bible, and even prayer from public life.

    But while the ACLU has been tireless in its efforts to purge the Christian religion from public life, the truth is, religion is the foundation on which nations are built. And although ACLU attorneys may shudder at the thought, the Christian religion provides the surest foundation for the moral, political, and social order of any nation.

    The importance of religion in providing the necessary foundation for any social order has been noted by acclaimed historians Will and Ariel Durant, who acknowledged in 1968 that “there is no significant example in history before our time of a society successfully maintaining moral life without the aid of religion.” Every government needs a moral code to justify and legitimize its rule, and every lasting moral system must rest on religion—which answers the ultimate questions about man and God. Without religion to breathe life and meaning into any legal-political system, the options are either anarchy or tyranny.

    Christianity and Western Pre-Eminence Some argue, as did the Durants, that in our time such a religious foundation is no longer necessary. But the truth is evident, even to elite social scientists in Communist China. The “pre-eminence” of Western cultures and nations is due to the influence of Christianity. Former Time magazine reporter David Aikman tells in his book, Jesus in Beijing, how a Chinese researcher explained that he and his colleagues “studied everything we could from the historical, political, economic, and cultural perspective,” to understand Western dominance. The researcher explained:

    At first, we thought it was because you had more powerful guns than we had. Then we thought it was because you had the best political system. Next we focused on your economic system. But in the past twenty years, we have realized that the heart of your culture is your religion: Christianity. That is why the West has been so powerful. The Christian moral foundation of social and cultural life was what made possible the emergence of capitalism and then the successful transition to democratic politics. We don’t have any doubt about this.

    What these Chinese scholars found to be true for the West was recognized very clearly by our nation’s founders. President John Adams, signer of both the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, put it this way:

    We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    Despite the record of history, the ACLU and its friends are adamant in their insistence that America is a secular nation. What Catholic priest and writer Richard John Neuhaus has called the “naked public square,” has become the ruling orthodoxy for contemporary American political thought.

    Government by Guillotine

    It is a modern innovation and one, if you consult the French Revolution, that doesn’t work out so well. The short-lived French Revolution (1789-1799) was so thoroughgoing in its rejection of Christianity that it even established a new calendar without Sundays. During its infamous Reign of Terror, the streets of Paris flowed with blood and tens of thousands of people were guillotined.

    As Ernest Renan, a nineteenth century French agnostic, stated:

    If Rationalism wishes to govern the world without regard to the religious needs of the soul, the experience of the French Revolution is there to teach us the consequences of such a blunder.

    And since Renan, Nazi, fascist, and communist regimes, all of which rejected God and religious belief, have shown, again, that once religion is removed, a door opens into the abyss. The death toll from Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and their fellow communist henchmen is nearly 100 million people, according to The Black Book of Communism.

    Here in America, the court-ordered departure from America’s Christian moral framework has already resulted in the death of more than 48 million people—all of them unborn.

    Thirty years later, we know better. Attributing humanity to the unborn can no longer be brushed off as “mystical notions of religious dogma.” To the contrary, it is a widely accepted scientific fact. After reviewing mounds of evidence, one U.S. Senate committee declared:

    Despite this sobering testimony from history, American law and politics have over the past decades moved toward the view, as stated by Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, that “[i]n the United States, secularism is mandated for the government.”13 “Mandated” is an aptly chosen word since “we, the people,” have not had any say in the matter. “Many Americans,” as Richard John Neuhaus writes, “feel that they were not consulted by whoever decided that this is a secular society. And they resent that; they resent it very much.”

    State-mandated secularism, imposed by the courts and enforced by the ACLU and its allies, is a leading flashpoint in America’s ongoing culture war between competing Christian and secular moral visions for the nation. One side looks to the Christian foundations of this country; the other provides no moral basis for American politics and government at all. It‘s a pity that the quarrel exists at all since, when you look at the record, not only is religion needed to found and sustain a state but, as we will see in the following chapter, Christianity makes the best foundation by far.

18. Tocan
    March 29th, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    Joe American who knows history: You are dead wrong. I’m serving in the military and no I can’t do what I want with my free time.
    I can not be part of a political protest or any of the other illegal acts stated in this bill and the same will apply to those that serve.

    SEC 120 Para 3.A and B.

    (A)not less than 90 percent of the students participate in service-learning activities as part of the program; or
    ‘
    (B) service-learning is a mandatory part of the curriculum in all of the secondary schools served by the local educational agency.

    Brainwashing children is not what this country should do. The above sec. details what you have to do to get money. Schools will now make indoctrination mandatory.

    A volunteer does so because they want to not to be paid. Our government and my tax dollars does not equal volunteerism.

    Oh and the part where high school students mentor middle school students. That’s going to work real well I can see it now high school boys will mentor those middle school girls I’m sure.

    How about we let parents decide with their children what types of activities and volunteer projects they want to perform and tell this government to mind their own business.

19. McLovin
    March 31st, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Mandatory Volunteerism=Slavery

    So, when is someone going to bring that up?

    Uniforms? No discussion about Obama’s speech about Civilian National Security Force that is as strong and as well funded as our armed services?

    Buy your guns and ammo and stay prepared!

20. Joe American who knows history
    April 4th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    Gosh you people really are dense.

    Mr. Strickland, a little over 1000 words and yet you had really nothing to say. Read one of the other founding fathers, you know Thomas Jefferson, specifically his letter to the Danbury Baptist Association. By the way, the separation goes both ways. It keeps religion out of government, but more importantly (especially for you God fearin’ types) it keeps government out of your religion. Would you prefer the government to TAX your beloved churches? Quit whining.

    To Tocan, being in the military and working for the government in a civil capacity is two ENTIRELY different things. Those in the military have ALTERED constitutional rights. Members of the military fall under the Uniform Code of Military Justice which is different from the laws that apply to civilians. Military members are not allowed to speak out against the president, openly express political views, etc. Why aren’t you people up in arms about this little tidbit? Oh yeah, because those limitations are necessary due to the function the military serves.

    As far as the little snippet you quote (having just read that and not the entire bill), ok so what? If you are a state and don’t want to abide by YOUR INTERPRETATION of this bill, then don’t take the F-ING federal money. It’s that simple. That might mean raising taxes at the local level though (OH MY GOD NOT MORE TAXES). But you probably already knew that the majority of the money for lower education public schools comes from local and state taxes. Only around 8% of public school funding comes from the federal government. It would be real easy for a state to say no to the money (I guess they’re greedy like everyone else). States had the option of opting out of No Child Left Behind as well. But if you want their money, you have to play by their rules. Again though, all this is based upon YOUR INTERPRETATION of this bill (namely the section you quote above). You could have very well (and in all likelihood probably did) misinterpreted the bill (just like you did with my explaining of CIVIL GOVERNMENT service as opposed to MILITARY GOVERNMENT service which I never mentioned because it is an entirely different beast).
    Do I have to educate you people on everything? Were your teachers not caring enough, your schooling that poor, and your parents too busy? Or maybe, just maybe, all of them found you to BE TOO THICK HEADED and not worth their effort.
    It’s no wonder this country was fed up with your ilk and threw the Republicans out of office. Have fun in the wilderness of your political banishment.

21. Joe American who isn't a plagarizer
    April 4th, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    Jeez, Mr. Strickland! All you did was cut and paste that entire 1000 word screed. It’s not even YOUR OWN 1000 words of nonsense. When copying another person’s work, have the DECENCY to at the very least cite that person’s work (regardless of how wrongheaded it happens to be). Here I’ll cite it for you (even though now their website seems to be kaput but through the magic of Google I was able to still find it). Mr. Strickland’s words were taken from this lame-o site: http://www.coralridge.org.

22. Patriot
    April 6th, 2009 at 4:18 am

    So, Mr. Joe American, are you defending this bill? It looks like you are; you need to reconsider your values, my friend. Also reconsider calling yourself an American. From what I’ve read I’d say you WANT this country to be the next Soviet Union. I’d like to own my own restaurant eventually. Apparently you want to pay more taxes, work without pay, and let the government pretty much run your life. You seem very pompous and arrogant so you’re probably going to leave a nasty little reply to this. In that reply I’d like you to give me one example where communism actually worked.

23. LauraLoo
    April 8th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    I just don’t understand. I feel like my generation had such a big part in rallying for Obama, and getting him elected. Now he is trying to take away the rights of our youth while forcing them to do volunteer work. I could see if it was a scholarship, but its not. I have to pay back all of my student loans to the government WITH INTEREST. So, how is this fair? Also, doesn’t forcing someone to do volunteer work completely defeat the purpose of trying to build up youth that care about the community. And does this mean that we cannot volunteer for church organizations? Even though I am not baptist I have volunteered on some of their missions that have been EXTREMELY helpful to my community…

24. dishonerable government
    May 4th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    dude the government need to stay out of our making up of the mind…..shit if we need a body of lies I’ll watch the movie…..and another thing joe the ass wipe, you need to get real and say fuck the government. i dont care what u believe and its none of my concern, but come on man they are very sneeky about what they do……do u even know how much $$ that seductive of a president of YOURS has spent just on himself traveling……more than all the people on this damn page make in a life time PUT together……the so say first woman is for sure the first woman to have her own personal hair and nail groomer…..how bout that shit we work, they get paid OUR money……wow what a fucking life!?

25. Pat-riot
    May 5th, 2009 at 12:50 am

    You go, Joe American. Many of us want to hear the story in its full context.

    And to Patriot: you make a completely bizarre leap from supporting HR 1388 to advocating for a Soviet-style totalitarian state. (”If A equals B, and C equals D, then E MUST equal T!”)

    Don’t worry; unlike the former Soviet Union, you’ll continue to be able to visit – and post to – websites (like this one!) where you and your colleagues can work yourself up to such a self-righteous lather that you’ll pee your pants.

26. Phanthanouvon
    May 6th, 2009 at 4:49 am

    very nice and informative site. I really had a great time reading some of you post.. keep it up and looking forward to read more soon.

27. sara
    May 6th, 2009 at 11:48 am

    The thing is. Many who are complaining about this being force volunteerism, do not have their children help in giving. How many school giving things are there, food drives, meal for an elderly you know. And include your kids in doing it and helping out? This also teaches your children disaster relief. Your child could save YOUR life oneday. Look at New Orleans. If many were mandatory educated on relief methods, how many of those lives could have been saved? Everyone looks to the Government as “it is YOUR fault” you didnt respond in time, you didnt do this or that. It takes ALOT of time to round up enough people to save as many as there were in New Orleans. When people locally could have “COULD HAVE” had the skills themselves!

    I wonder how many troubled kids that parents dont really care about. Might turn their hearts around by just participating in this. Helping someone can really warm your heart.

    Sure its up to the parents.. But what percentage of parents are ACTUALLY enforcing it and showing this type of example? I know I do. But I see so many that dont. Their kids are so materialistic, they have no respect for another person, including their friends.

    This can show them how to help, how to respect others. And in turn our country could be more in the right than the wrong.

    Just my opinion. But everyone likes to nit pick everything down to the bitter bottom and find things and complain about things and they got it all wrong. the wording of the act is one of them.

    Everyone wants separation of church and state but once its in a act.. they raise hell!

    Just my two cents. Thanks Joe American.. for or against this Act you made so much sense!

28. Peter
    May 8th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    I’m guessing that before long,..BO and his “troopers” will be painting “crosses” on our windows and providing free train rides to the “work camps”. Will they indoctrinate and train the young to inform on their parents and neighbors who disagree with government policies? Sounds ridiculous,..doesn’t it? Remember that it happened once and it can happen again. Better wake up people,…once our freedoms are gone,..they won’t be coming back any time soon, if ever. If you care not for yourself, then consider your children.

29. JeannieMcNeely
    June 11th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    Wake Up Americans It is on our door steps,Peter is right when our freedom is gone it will be too late,the camps are already in place,it seems some are so Hipnotized with Obama they can’t see the forest for the trees.

30. bob
    November 10th, 2009 at 12:32 am

    I don’t know if people aren’t jumping to the wrong conclusion here. It looks to me like the prohibitions deal with someone in the midst of service, on government time, not being able to engage in protest or support religious activities. I don’t want people on government time leading protests or engaging in religious teaching, etc. If I’m wrong, that’s just another reason to be against this bad bill. If I’m right, then let’s not make conservatives look foolish by making a big deal of the wrong thing.

31. Tim Singleton
    November 10th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Joe, I have no intention of getting along with this Marxist. If the Constitution can be willfully and maliciously interpreted to mean that an unborn child can be murdered at any time, this THIS language can sure to Heaven be interpreted to mean that protests will not be allowed at any time by those serving their so-called voluntary three months.

    This is not about service to the nation, this is about subservience to this government.

    I do not intend to get along; I intend to misbehave and oppose him in every forum possible, in every way possible, every day.

32. Erin
    November 10th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    Guys, I just had a thought- WHY, given the prohibition against

    (7) Engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.

    ^^^that also applies to the military while in uniform, why did Nidal Hasan get away with it at Walter Reed and Ft. Hood? He was actively trying to recruit his patients and colleagues. Oh, my bad, it’s Islam. Never mind.

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